Compassion Fatigue with Laura Henderson, LPCBurnout and compassion fatigue are all too common in animal care workers, but we don’t talk about it enough. Laura Henderson is a licensed professional counselor who has worked with the Denver Dumb Friends League as a consultant and mental health coach. She speaks with Emily and Libby about secondary trauma in shelter and rescue workers, how to spot compassion fatigue in ourselves, and ways we can use self-care to help lighten the heavy load we sometimes carry when working with animals.
To learn more about Laura Henderson and her work or to contact her for workshops: https://www.laurahendersoncounseling.com/ More compassion fatigue resources: https://jessicadolce.com/resources/ The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk: https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score |
Episode Transcript
Libby 0:01
Welcome to pod to the rescue a podcast from summit dog rescue in Boulder, Colorado.
Emily 0:06
I'm Emily.
Libby 0:07
And I'm Libby.
Emily 0:08
We're both Professional Dog Trainers with multiple certifications in dog training and behavior. Together we have more than two decades of experience in dog rescue.
Libby 0:18
We want to share everything we've learned along the way with other folks involved in dog rescue, sheltering, fostering and adoption and anyone who just loves dogs.
Emily 0:27
Rescuing the dog is just the first step.
Libby 0:30
We're here to help with everything that comes next.
Hello, listeners and welcome back. Today we are bringing you an interview with Laura Henderson. Laura Henderson LPC is a Colorado based psychotherapist and mental health consultant specializing in primary and secondary trauma and substance use recovery. In addition to her private practice, Laura most recently worked with the staff at Denver dumb friends league as a consultant and mental health coach. She provided one on one coaching and facilitated workshops on managing stress and recognizing and reducing compassion, fatigue, secondary trauma and burnout. She is passionate about supporting the well being of caregivers of animals and people through an understanding of compassion, fatigue, and sharing the tools and strategies that improve self care and build resiliency.
Emily 1:22
I really enjoyed this conversation. And I wish we had had it even earlier in our seasons, because it's something we just don't talk about enough. I think in the animal rescue and sheltering world, how hard it is for us emotionally to be working with these animals that have no voice. And so many times the outcomes are difficult and sad. And there's no more need than help. So I think a lot of us suffer with this. Or, you know, have it kind of dancing in the background of our mental health scenarios. So I really appreciated this conversation and learned a lot.
Libby 2:05
Yeah, I agree. We don't talk about mental health enough among animal care workers. And it's just so important for us to find balance between the caring, compassionate work we do. And like Laura says in the episode having compassion for ourselves and taking good care of ourselves,
Emily 2:23
Yeah we talk a lot about dogs emotional cup, but I feel like we don't talk about our emotional cup. And when your emotional cup is drained, and you're constantly in a stress, fight or flight, you're really not a help to anyone, including yourself. So I hope everybody listens to this entire episode. I found it so helpful. And I hope you do as well.
Libby 2:49
Hello, Laura Henderson. Welcome to pod to the rescue.
Laura 2:52
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Libby 2:54
Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time. So can we start by you telling us briefly about who you are, what you do and your experience with compassion fatigue?
Laura 3:06
Yes, you bet. Again, I'm Laura Henderson and I am a licensed professional counselor. And I specialize in working with trauma and addiction in my private practice. My office now is in Broomfield used to be in Denver. And my experience with compassion fatigue is I've personally experienced it. And I in my practice, have worked with a lot of clients who have experienced compassion, fatigue. And as far as animal welfare. In 2019, I worked for the dumb friends like as a mental health consultant and coach, helping their staff with compassion, fatigue, burnout, self care, all the things. So I worked with their leadership, and then with their staff for about a year into a few months into the pandemic, and then my hours kind of ended. But for that year, I really was focusing on the staff and the leadership and how do we build community in helping each other with compassion, fatigue with secondary trauma, with better self care and then as individuals also
Libby 4:23
wow, that's really important. And I'm sure that dumb friends League was super lucky and grateful to have you.
Laura 4:31
It was it was a wonderful work. I loved it. And it was a very special job. And I'd love to see it in every and every shelter and every rescue organization. I just you know, I don't know if it's caught on but it was a really special special work.
Emily 4:47
So can you tell us what is compassion fatigue? And why should animal care workers be aware of it? Sure.
Laura 4:56
There are a lot of definitions of compassion fatigue, everyone kind of as their own definition, but I think of it as kind of a emotional, physical, social spiritual depletion, or exhaustion. And it stems from taking caring for others, whether it's people or animals. And it kind of, it takes away our ability to fully care for ourselves and for others. It's kind of the fatigue of our empathy. So we can still feel compassion, empathy in our work, but it's a lessening of it. And I don't know if you've, if you've ever felt that you too, personally. But for me, it's like I didn't, I've never lost my empathy for my clients, or for my animals, but it's just a complete exhaustion where I know I'm not showing up fully in the way that I need to be
Emily 5:52
interesting. I think I definitely have it and have experienced it. You know, because I've been a rescue for over a decade. And what do you think it really comes from? Like in this in this field, we see a lot of suffering, and there's a lot of outcomes that we don't have control over? Would it be? Would it be that that causes the suffering and the lack of control?
Laura 6:17
I think there are a lot of reasons why we get it, that one of my favorite quotes is a woman who said, I can't remember her name right now, but who said, you know, expecting to not have any effect from suffering and loss is like walking through water and expecting not to get wet? Right, so we're all at risk for it in the helping professions. And it there are a couple of risk factors. So if we, if we start with the basics, that we're all at risk, in this work, of having compassion, fatigue, having secondary trauma, even burnout. Some some specific risk factors might be somebody who has unresolved past trauma, or not having good boundaries, personal boundaries, right, not having or having an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, maybe that's from childhood, feeling that you can rescue everything. And another another risk factor is being very other directed. And it's out of balance with being self directed, or self focused. So there are some risk factors. But I think we're all at risk for it. When we care about the work we do.
Libby 7:37
I think that's really insightful. I saw a reference from the book, The Body Keeps the Score, that people who have some kind of trauma load already are more likely to go into animal care work, whether that is veterinary medicine, or animal training, or animal rescue or something like that. So what I hear you saying is that sometimes animal care workers might already be at higher risk for compassion, fatigue, and then we go into really challenging work where we're seeing a lot of suffering. And that just kind of piles on is that right?
Laura 8:28
Yeah, that's true. And, and I think a lot of times, people who have who have cumulative trauma from people go into animal rescue to work with animals, either over identifying or not wanting to be around people as much. We have seen that a lot. That's certainly not true for everyone. But I think that's, that's pretty common. You know, if you if you have a lot of trauma. Personally, if I had a lot of trauma, I just want to work with animals. So you don't necessarily want to be around. Or it's harder to be around people, especially if it's unresolved, right? You know, if people have done their work and then are starting to heal from the trauma, it's different.
Libby 9:16
So, it sounds like animal rescue workers and veterinarians suffer from compassion, fatigue, maybe at a disproportionate rate. I don't know if there were actual statistics on this. And you can clarify that. But how can we protect ourselves from the effects of compassion fatigue?
Laura 9:40
Yeah, that's a great question. And I do there, there are some studies on a high rate or higher risk of mental health distress and or suicide in veterinarians. And it's, it's alarming and so we have a lot of work to do. And then I you know, I think Animal Rescue workers do suffer from more more mental health, distress, or complications, along with other helping professions. Right, it's harder to tease that out. But we certainly know that when you identify within with the suffering of an animal, those who can't speak for themselves, then there is a higher risk of compassion, fatigue, mental health complications, secondary trauma. So there are a few things that we can do to kind of see the signs, notice the symptoms, and then I can talk about what we can do about it. So I'll start with if it's okay, it's some of the signs and the symptoms that you'll notice. Let's talk about the symptoms when we know we're in, and compassion fatigue, and then we can kind of talk about what early signs might be, but the symptoms are kind of persistent, and then any, anything that has negative side effects in your life. So for example, you might notice your sleep is disturbed, persistently. So if you're somebody who suffers from insomnia anyway, then that may be a harder symptom to see. But if you're all of a sudden waking up at one in the morning, two in the morning, I can't sleep, racing thoughts about the animals, you're in compassion fatigue, or you have it or you're, you're moving toward it. Right, we all suffer from kind of compassion stress in our day to day work. But when it becomes compassion, fatigue, is when again, persistent secondary trauma or a person, you know, you see suffering over and over and over again, then some of the other symptoms might be frequent illness, that might be feeling isolated, or isolating yourself, right? Everybody's asking me for something all the time. So you might take a step back, and notice you're isolating more than usual. So again, these are things that are abnormal, or out of the norm for you. These are good signs, frustration and resentment, higher levels, getting that quicker. using substances more frequently, and you're noticing you're doing it to numb or to self medicate. And that can include food, shopping, zoning out on social media, anything that kind of, again, not there. It's not we're not talking about good or bad. But is it having a negative effect on your life? reduced ability to feel empathy. And then sometimes we can see signs of trauma, which is hyper vigilance, or flashbacks, you know, so, secondary trauma, and compassion, fatigue kind of go hand in hand, some people think they're the same thing. I kind of separate them out a little bit, but they're pretty hand in hand. When we are observing secondary trauma, it can become second, compassion fatigue.
Libby 13:08
Okay. Did we define secondary trauma yet?
Laura 13:14
No, I don't think we did. And I can, I'll talk a little bit about that, then secondary trauma is just the witnessing of someone else's trauma. But sometimes in our brain, our brain can't differentiate between primary trauma and secondary trauma. And so we'll talk about that in a minute. It's really important to be able to regulate your nervous system. Because again, sometimes our brain that part of our brain thinks we're also in trauma, even though we're just observing it, if we haven't kind of built resilience around it, because we all see secondary trauma in the work that we do, whether it's with people or with him. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's it's it's important that we I am so grateful that you're having me talk about this because it is so important in the in the mental health field, as therapists, we talk about this all day long, and we're very aware of it. In other professions. I don't, I think people are talking about it more. But it's very real. And it and it can lead to some severe complications.
Libby 14:22
So what are some of those early signs? Where we can see like, oh, no, okay, I need to take a step back. I need to do some self care or yeah, whatever preventative strategies you might be able to share with us.
Laura 14:36
Well, I think if we look at if we, if we think about the symptoms I just listed, it's kind of the, the early signs or the early signs, right? It's just starting, but it starts with a self awareness. So I'm having a self awareness of one, what happens in your body. So if we can all recognize okay, I know when I know what happens in my body when I feel joy. I know what happens when I'm sad. Because our body gives us the cues early. And just like that book you were referencing, the Body Keeps the Score. Our body holds our trauma and holds our stress. And it also gives us cues. So an early, if we have early warning, it's knowing, okay, well, I'm not sleeping, or my heart rate is really, up and fat, my heart's beating fast every time I go to work, what's going on? So knowing what your baseline is, here's, I know what happens when I feel calm, and I feel joyful. And I'm going to work and I'm working with the animals versus my palms are sweating, I feel sick to my stomach, I'm starting to get sick more often. Your body's telling you, there's something wrong.
Libby 15:56
We often talk about in dog training a dog's threshold, like their emotional threshold, like a bucket that's about to overflow, you know, and like one event fills the bucket up one inch. But once you keep adding on stressful events for the dog, the bucket can overflow. And that's when they're over their emotional threshold. And they are struggling to learn. They're struggling to pay attention struggling to do easy tasks. And I'm kind of relating that back to what you're saying right now. It's kind of a cumulative, maybe we're always close to being at our emotional threshold.
Laura 16:41
Yes, yes. And if we think that's a great as a great visual of, we're on a podcast, you can see the visual that we're talking about, of the bucket overflowing of the threshold. Because what happens with humans is, we have a nervous part of our nervous system is called the autonomic nervous system. And it regulates the automatic body functions, breathing, heart rate, digestion, things we don't have to think about. And to kind of simplify this explanation, I can kind of geek out on this as a trauma therapist, but basically, where we want to be is what we call the parasympathetic nervous system. And that's that calm place. So with, with animals, I don't know if animals have this similar nervous system, I apologize for not knowing this. They do. Okay, yeah. So, but and with us, it's the parasympathetic is that calm resting place, we're feeling curious, we know our emotions, we're thinking clearly, when we have an activation or an activating event, we get kicked into fight or flight. Everybody has heard about fight or flight. And what happens is, if we don't give ourselves the time, to get back to baseline, or to allow parasympathetic nervous system to kick in, then we stay in fight or flight for too long, we might dip back down a little bit. But if we stay in there too long, in sympathetic nervous system, then that's where we start seeing compassion, fatigue symptoms, chronic illness, that's where we start regularly, we start just feeling the effects of trauma. So what what's when you think about the bucket overflowing, that's what's happening, right, we're in fight or flight for too long, and we're not made to be up there. So part of the and we'll talk about this in a minute, but part of the strategy is learning how to regulate your nervous system. Because also, when we're in sympathetic nervous system, or in fight or flight, our logic brain goes offline. Our logic brain is just like I'm out of here. I'll see ya. So we're not we can't think clearly. And think about theffects of that also.
Emily 18:58
it's so interesting, because it really is so similar to dogs. And on this podcast, and in our dog training world, we always talk about taking them out on decompression walks and letting them smell. So we're so focused on how can we get their brain into that parasympathetic, like decompressing and, you know, really filling their emotional cup, but we don't really think about it so much for us. So I really am enjoying this conversation and having all these thoughts I'm not saying a lot because I'm having all these thoughts like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, like this has taken a toll and how can we the humans, protect ourselves so that we can keep doing the work that we're doing?
Laura 19:44
Right, and that's such a good point because we are so focused on other right and so if you're focused on well, how do we take care of the animals and then we forget to take care of ourselves. And the the, the idea of the oxygen mask The plane, right is is the perfect example for this or the analogy for this is that we have to put on the oxygen mask first, and then help others and we forget to put that on. Yeah. And that's when that compassion fatigue sets in.
Emily 20:16
And I have a question which maybe is out of line of questioning. But one problem you mentioned was boundaries. And as an animal rescuer, like I get emails, phone calls, you know, all day long, people assume because you're a rescuer that you can help and it's so hard. So, you know, like to tell someone I'm sorry, I can't help you with your dog like, because we don't have you know, we don't have, we can't help like, we probably get 15 requests a day. There's no way that we could do it. So how, how our boundaries fit in there. And without feeling bad every time I like, I'm a yes person. So it really hurts me. And I feel like a piece of myself every time I just have to be like, Sorry, can't help like that. That's a hard place to be.
Laura 21:04
It sure is. Emily, I can't imagine how difficult that is. I know, it's, it's probably easier for me to say no to people, it's hard. But to say no, for an animal. I think that that's probably one of the reasons that you guys are at higher risk that we were talking about before is right being having to say I can't help. And so I don't know that I have an easy answer. I think one, you setting those boundaries are essential and crucial for you. On a personal level up, not to mention just the capacity level, right? You can't help everybody. But also I think we all have to allow for the hard emotions, to be able to express them in a way that gets them out. But also just there's an acceptance that comes with your in this work. And you are going to feel terrible when you have to say no. And not being afraid of it and not shying away from it. That's what we do. We know. It's part of addiction, right? It's part of, I don't want to feel this. And it's not easy. But fear. But owning, acknowledging, naming your emotions, and then being able to sit in them is at the crux crux of mental wellness. That makes sense. So does that make sense? So setting boundaries is so important, but it's not easy? Essentially, and maybe recognizing, okay, I know, I'm going to have to turn off my email at 10 o'clock at night. But you have to, and then knowing that maybe maybe delegating the next day? Or if you say no, is there someone else who's going to say yes, and I know that in Animal Rescue over the pandemic. It's been challenging, either either you guys are overflowing, or I heard people are bringing their animals back. And. And so yes, setting boundaries is crucial. Having people to having your people that you can talk to about this. But being able to express these hard emotions, in a healthy way, is also part of good self care. So if that is talking, go into therapy, creative outlet, meditation, mindfulness, prayer, whatever that looks like for you. But knowing okay, this is going this is hard. And how am I expressing this in a healthy way?
Libby 23:45
So let's talk a little bit about some of this self care that we can do. You mentioned nervous system regulation. How? How does that work? Not saying that? I don't know. No, no. I don't know.
Laura 24:05
So there's a couple, there's a couple of different Well, there, there are quite a few ways but the first way we can regulate nervous system is immediate. So let's say you pick up an animal who has been abused or hurt in some way, and you're trying to get that dog to the vet or safe. And I'm making this up. But I'm assuming that there's something similar like that. And you you're in sympathetic nervous system, right? You're in fight or flight. It's, it's an important it's, it's it's helpful at that moment, right, you're getting an animal the safety or and then the animals at the vet and you're still you still have a lot of adrenaline, cortisol coursing through your body. So the self awareness that I was talking about earlier comes that you recognize Okay, I need to stop and so There's an acronym for stop, which is stop, take a breath, observe and then proceed. And so what that what happens is, I think let's say you're walking out of the vet, and the dog is safe, and you're safe. But you still have the adrenaline and the cortisol racing through your body. That's the time to stop. And so instead of being on to the next thing, and the next thing, so again, taking a breath, there's different breathing, there are different breathing strategies, box breath, which is breathing in for, for holding for, for, exhaling for, for, and holding for, for, you know, so there are different breathing strategies, but recognizing that breath is getting you back in your body. It's getting you back in the moment. If breathing is hard, because you're really wrapped up, then what doing what we call observing, orienting yourself to your surroundings. So using your five senses, observing what what do I see naming what you see out loud? What do I hear? What do I smell? What's the temperature, like, anything that orient you back to the moment allows your logic brain or your prefrontal cortex to come back on, and then you're back in that calm place or your your baseline. So also movement helps with that. Right? Again, dogs or animals shake their trauma out, right? You guys know this. But as humans, we just stuffed it and let it fester. So we also need to get rid of the cortisol and the adrenaline. So maybe you stop, take a breath, orient yourself, and then move your body a little bit. Shake it out, dance, walk, have some water, and then go about your day. So that's kind of an immediate way to regulate your nervous system.
Libby 27:07
So what uh, what about someone who realizes that they have this cumulative stress load? How do we begin to discharge that? When we haven't been doing it in the moment for however many years?
Laura 27:23
Yeah, yeah. And so that's where good self care comes in. That is one proactive, but also replenishing. So if you're someone who's been in the animal welfare field for many, many years, and you recognize I am and compassion fatigue, I have burnout. I'm in trouble. It's, it's never too late to start. So going back to the basics is important. How are you eating? How are you sleeping? How are you moving your body each day? Are you drinking enough water, those are really good basics, it's a good place to start. Because I know for me, when I have felt compassion, fatigue or been in burnout, I'm eating terribly. I'm not moving the way I should be. You know, I'm definitely not sleeping well. So that's the base, starting with the basics is a great place to start no matter where you are. And then taking a look at things like a mindfulness practice, whether that's meditation, or prayer, or something every day so that every day you're teaching your nervous system or reminding your nervous system how to regulate. And it has to be a daily chore. Hopefully, it's a daily practice and a daily reminder, setting boundaries, like we talked about earlier, trying to focus on what's in your control. So many times I have to do this for myself, I make a chart for myself, when I'm spinning in my head. On the left hand side is all the things that are in my control. And on the right is usually the things that are out of my control. And if I am stressed, I'm usually focusing on what's out of my control. That's every time that's so helpful. Wow, isn't that amazing? So even if you can make that chart for yourself and write, write down everything that's stressing you out and then put it in the chart on either side. I guarantee you a lot of your time is spent on things that are out of your control. So it's a mindset shift.
Libby 29:35
This is really blowing my mind right now. And it's bringing up a question that really came to me this morning while I was walking Daisy. I wonder often if social media makes things worse for us in the pet care industry because You know, you log onto Facebook and you see pleas from all over the world of dogs who need rescue. And 90% of the time, there's nothing we can do about it. Or as dog trainers, Emily, and I know, like, we log into social media and we see a trainer using abusive methods. And it's, it's it hurts to see all of these dogs that we can't help. But we never would have encountered that level of a stressor if we hadn't seen it on social media. So do you think that that contributes to the problem?
Laura 30:51
Absolutely. I think we're saturated. And again, how do we are we're emotionally saturated as carrying humans? And then on that, on top of that, you know, what's going on, in a way that the rest of us don't? Right? So for me, when I log on to social media, and I see all the pleas from around the world, I feel paralyzed. Can I get this people? Can I give them money? Okay, well, I live in Lafayette summits in Boulder, you know, and trying to figure out who I can help. Or sometimes I just shut down. That's so for you guys who actually have no more of an awareness of what's happening. I think it's worse. Absolutely. So coming back to that. Okay, what is in my control? And how do I say no, that's the boundary piece. That's so hard. So to answer your question, I think absolutely. I mean, social media is a blessing and a curse. In this case, I think it's it makes your jobs harder.
Emily 32:02
So I'm going back to the fact that you were hired by Denver dumb friends league to work with the workers, you know, the volunteers and the staff. Would you recommend it sounds like you would like even small rescues like us, and you know, shelters, if they can incorporate some sort of like meetings or discussions about compassion, fatigue, and sharing of emotions and trying to help people to remember to identify, because that's my problem is like, once I'm in it, I can't even stop and be like, stop or, you know, I'll just be like, go through the day and fight or flight and then come home and like, have a pint of ice cream?
Laura 32:43
Well, that's exactly right. And that's how you're regulating then your nervous system is by eating the pint of ice cream again, no judgment, right. But is it the healthiest habit? Over time? Right. Same with the alcohol, they're saying that? So what I reckon absolutely, I think even just if small rescues, any organization can have a work workshops, that's what I was doing at the league was, I was giving workshops for different departments on this topic. And we would have conversations, and it needs to be ongoing. So for you, Emily, having a buddy system, even with someone who is going to check you, and who's aware of your signs, and you're aware of their signs. Because we when we're in it again, if our if our, if our frontal lobe is offline, or like the logic part of our brain, then sometimes it is hard to recognize what's happening for us. So I would, I would hope, you know, hope that other rescues, maybe you have somebody you check in with during the day, you know, or you have somebody you know, like me, a mental health consultant who can come in and do a workshop every once in a while, or do an email reminder or something, because again, we get Jaime, it's why therapists have therapists, because we have blind spots. We all do.
Emily 34:09
Yeah, it's such a good conversation, because so many times when I meet new people, and I tell them, I'm a dog trainer, and I'm in rescue, they're like, Oh, my God, that's so great. Like, oh, it's, you know, it's actually like, emergency work most of the time. Yeah, you know. And so I think it's so great to talk about the mental health factors and how we can support each other, even just you know, once a week having a buddy check in and be like, how are we all doing? I think that's so important for us to at least keep doing it. I mean, Libby's heard a million times me being like, I don't know how long I can do this, but we keep going. So just if I could, like release the pressure valve, and have some mindfulness,
Laura 34:51
yes. And so yeah, it's kind of like your own self care, and then building community. So like you said, check in once a week or Three times a week or you have a text chain or something, one thing we have to be careful about is making sure that we're doing what's called low impact debrief. So, what that means is sometimes when we all get together for like, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened, and then we have more trauma input, right? So one way to do that if you let's say, You, Libby and Emily and whoever else is involved in your rescue are getting together is that you're asking permission to debrief. I had a really hard, traumatic experience happen. Are you guys okay? If I share this with you? And then it prepares people and then if somebody's like, I can't I'm, I'm out. Okay. Let's check in with you. What do you need? And then if you Emily need to debrief maybe Libby says, Okay, later I can handle it because I feel okay. But we really have to watch our trauma input. Meaning are we watching like true crime on, you know, at night, and then listening to you know, we're, which we all do. I mean, I watch these cop shows sometimes. And I'm like, What am I doing? Then? I wonder why I can't sleep. But it's we have trauma input all the time. So I think another self care strategies, just being aware of where's our trauma coming, watching the news? 24/7. Right, there's a lot happening in the world outside of our own sadness. And it's a lot coming at us not to mention in two years into a pandemic.
Emily 36:39
Okay, I just want to repeat that, because I just that was one of the most profound things I've ever heard is we really want to watch our trauma and put that is so interesting. And so and also that if I have trauma, not to just call Libby and do a trauma dump, because then she's getting secondary trauma, right from my trauma.
Laura 37:00
Right. And so asking her permission if Libby said, it flippy feels like she's in what we call the window of tolerance. But I was talking about parasympathetic nervous system. If Libby's like, yeah, good. laid on me. I'm here to help. Or Libby has a chance to be like, I'm out. I'm tapped out. Right?
Libby 37:19
Yeah. I'm, I'm listening to all of this. And I'm recognizing Emily and I are really guilty of doing this to one another. We're bad about really bad about it. Like, yeah, so it sounds like our nervous system can't tell the difference between my own bad day and Emily's bad day. Or like you were saying, like, you know, watching, binge watching SVU on Hulu like mine is, is that kind of what you're saying? Like my nervous system is taking on all of that stress?
Laura 37:51
It sure is. And sometimes it can tell. Sometimes it can tell the difference. But you but it's again, going back to noticing your body cues. So if you're watching SVU, and you're starting to feel sweaty, right, or that lump in your throat, then you're being activated. And you're having a trauma response, most likely. So it's being but sometimes you can watch us view and you can you definitely can separate, right again, if you're feeling good. And Emily calls you Libby and tells you about our her trauma today. It is it can be secondary trauma, but it may not be secondary trauma, stress. But you'll know it if you're aware of how it affects you.
Libby 38:36
So it goes back to being able to observe what's happening
Laura 38:40
all the time. Exactly. Noticing, because your body's giving you cues all the time, you know, and it's hard to remember, I don't remember it until the end of the day after you know, six trauma clients and I'm like, why am I so wired? Why do I feel like crying? Oh, because I didn't take a break. And I you know, my nervous system is flooded. So then I have to ask myself, What do I need? That's healthy to get back in that in that calm state?
Libby 39:11
Earlier you mentioned burnout. Yeah. What is the relationship between compassion fatigue and burnout? And are they the same thing?
Laura 39:24
The easy answer is no, they're not the same thing. So but burnout can happen in any job at any time. So it's not necessarily related to trauma or compassion, compassionate work, right? You can work I don't know at a bank and just have a co worker conflict and get burned out. But But burnout happens over time. Kind of like compassion, fatigue, burnout can be like, I hate my boss. I've been working 14 hours a day. All the things and then all of a sudden you recognize you're exhausted is this it can be some are symptoms. But it doesn't always it's not always related to compassion, compassion, fatigue is in the helping profession. And again, it diminishes our ability to be fully compassionate and empathetic for ourselves and for others. So you can experience burnout and compassion when you have compassion fatigue, certainly.
Libby 40:23
Okay, that makes sense. So does that make sense? Yeah, it's specifically related to helping, caring, kind of work,
Laura 40:32
right? Compassionate work, we get fatigued in our ability to have empathy or compassion, whereas burnout can be
Libby 40:41
generalized. Got it.
Emily 40:44
So when you say fatigued, in our ability to have compassion or empathy, like, what does that really mean? Because I feel like I've never gotten to the point where I don't have empathy or compassion. I kind of wish I did get to that point. So what is that more secondary trauma where you're just feeling like you're constantly in compassion overload, but you still have compassion and empathy?
Laura 41:11
No, I think it's a great question. I think we can still have compassion, empathy, even when we have compassion, fatigue, but we but it's, we have a diminished ability. Because we're depleted. We're exhausted. And so right. So again, if as a therapist, if I am in compassion, fatigue, if I have it, or I'm nearing burnout, I don't feel like maybe I'm as present as I want to be doesn't mean I've lost my empathy or my ability to care for them. But or I've lost my ability to care for myself. That's typically what happens is with compassion, fatigue, we're giving all our compassion and empathy to others. And we've lost our ability to have empathy for ourselves. That really, no, it's not absence of it's almost diminishment of. I hope that's clear.
Emily 42:10
Oh, yeah. That was Yeah.
Libby 42:13
I mean, it's just so common in dog rescue, to put everyone else's needs first, and then wonder why we're sick all the time, or grumpy all the time, or, you know, angry because we didn't make time for our own dog or something like that. It's just so easy to lose that compassion for ourselves.
Laura 42:38
It really is inside. So I know we're going to run out of time. But I would say, you know, one of the I think one of the greatest prevention against this is the recognition that this is what's happening. So even starting the conversation, so Emily, and Libby and you guys having a conversation with your team, and being able to acknowledge and name it, here's what's happening for me. And then figuring out, okay, what do I need to regulate my nervous system every day? It's a great starting point. And then you build those self care things, and then you're automatically starting to remember yourself, rather than always doing for others, because we need you, both of you in this work, and if you burn out, or you get sick, then you can't help anyone. Right? That's the oxygen mask. And it's your work is so vital. You know, so I think yeah, thank you. I think for anyone who's listening, starting the conversation is crucial.
Libby 43:47
So Laura, before we let you go, is there anything else about compassion fatigue, that we didn't cover that you think is really important for our listeners to know?
Laura 43:56
Oh, there's, there's, there's so much more. But I think, just what we talked about, start the conversation, recognize what works for you for self care, because it looks different for everyone else, but being able to name and acknowledge and sit in these hard emotions is part of it also. And then I think great self compassion. You're not going to get it right. All the time. But having that compassion for yourself, even you know, putting your hands on your heart when your breathing is giving yourself it's helping to regulate your nervous system, but it's also giving yourself this compassion that this is really hard work. I do this all the time. My clients are like, Why Why is she doing this again? But it just feels good, but it's also just okay, I'm regulating and I'm showing myself some compassion that this isn't easy.
Emily 44:54
Yeah. You know, yeah. Oh my gosh, well, this was such important conversation. I'm so glad that you could join us. And I'm sure all our listeners who work with animals and foster and volunteer in shelters will really appreciate it. Because I do think it's, it's so important for us to take care of ourselves.
Laura 45:16
It really is. And there are a lot of great resources online of people who work in the in the animal rescue world who have a ton of rescue resources about compassion fatigue, and I'm happy to send a list to you guys. Yes, if that would be helpful.
Libby 45:34
Yeah, we put all of those in the show notes. And Laura, if any of our listeners are hearing you speak about your work with dumb friends League and would like you to do a workshop for their organization. Are you available for that kind of thing?
Laura 45:46
Absolutely. It's, it's one of my loves. You can email me at [email protected]. Or my website is my therapy website. It doesn't have my mental health. Other work on there, but it's LauraHendersoncounseling.com.
Libby 46:07
Awesome. I'll put those links in the show notes.
Laura 46:10
Thank you. Yeah, I love this. I love this work. I and I would be I would love to do workshops or send resources or just jump on the phone with somebody who has questions.
Libby 46:21
Amazing.
Laura 46:22
Absolutely
Emily 46:23
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Libby 46:26
Well, Laura, thank you so much for taking the time today. This was a really important conversation and I'm I'm really glad that we're able to share it with our listeners.
Laura 46:36
Thank you so much for having me.
Libby 46:42
Thanks for tuning in. If you liked this episode, don't forget to rate and review. It helps other folks like you find the show. Thanks to Mike pesci for the original music and James II have be heard for production. For show notes and transcripts visit pod to the rescue.com. Let us know what you think about this episode on social media. We're at pod to the rescue on Facebook and Instagram and we love connecting with listeners. We'll catch you next time on pod to the rescue. Oh, and tell your dog we said hi
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Welcome to pod to the rescue a podcast from summit dog rescue in Boulder, Colorado.
Emily 0:06
I'm Emily.
Libby 0:07
And I'm Libby.
Emily 0:08
We're both Professional Dog Trainers with multiple certifications in dog training and behavior. Together we have more than two decades of experience in dog rescue.
Libby 0:18
We want to share everything we've learned along the way with other folks involved in dog rescue, sheltering, fostering and adoption and anyone who just loves dogs.
Emily 0:27
Rescuing the dog is just the first step.
Libby 0:30
We're here to help with everything that comes next.
Hello, listeners and welcome back. Today we are bringing you an interview with Laura Henderson. Laura Henderson LPC is a Colorado based psychotherapist and mental health consultant specializing in primary and secondary trauma and substance use recovery. In addition to her private practice, Laura most recently worked with the staff at Denver dumb friends league as a consultant and mental health coach. She provided one on one coaching and facilitated workshops on managing stress and recognizing and reducing compassion, fatigue, secondary trauma and burnout. She is passionate about supporting the well being of caregivers of animals and people through an understanding of compassion, fatigue, and sharing the tools and strategies that improve self care and build resiliency.
Emily 1:22
I really enjoyed this conversation. And I wish we had had it even earlier in our seasons, because it's something we just don't talk about enough. I think in the animal rescue and sheltering world, how hard it is for us emotionally to be working with these animals that have no voice. And so many times the outcomes are difficult and sad. And there's no more need than help. So I think a lot of us suffer with this. Or, you know, have it kind of dancing in the background of our mental health scenarios. So I really appreciated this conversation and learned a lot.
Libby 2:05
Yeah, I agree. We don't talk about mental health enough among animal care workers. And it's just so important for us to find balance between the caring, compassionate work we do. And like Laura says in the episode having compassion for ourselves and taking good care of ourselves,
Emily 2:23
Yeah we talk a lot about dogs emotional cup, but I feel like we don't talk about our emotional cup. And when your emotional cup is drained, and you're constantly in a stress, fight or flight, you're really not a help to anyone, including yourself. So I hope everybody listens to this entire episode. I found it so helpful. And I hope you do as well.
Libby 2:49
Hello, Laura Henderson. Welcome to pod to the rescue.
Laura 2:52
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Libby 2:54
Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time. So can we start by you telling us briefly about who you are, what you do and your experience with compassion fatigue?
Laura 3:06
Yes, you bet. Again, I'm Laura Henderson and I am a licensed professional counselor. And I specialize in working with trauma and addiction in my private practice. My office now is in Broomfield used to be in Denver. And my experience with compassion fatigue is I've personally experienced it. And I in my practice, have worked with a lot of clients who have experienced compassion, fatigue. And as far as animal welfare. In 2019, I worked for the dumb friends like as a mental health consultant and coach, helping their staff with compassion, fatigue, burnout, self care, all the things. So I worked with their leadership, and then with their staff for about a year into a few months into the pandemic, and then my hours kind of ended. But for that year, I really was focusing on the staff and the leadership and how do we build community in helping each other with compassion, fatigue with secondary trauma, with better self care and then as individuals also
Libby 4:23
wow, that's really important. And I'm sure that dumb friends League was super lucky and grateful to have you.
Laura 4:31
It was it was a wonderful work. I loved it. And it was a very special job. And I'd love to see it in every and every shelter and every rescue organization. I just you know, I don't know if it's caught on but it was a really special special work.
Emily 4:47
So can you tell us what is compassion fatigue? And why should animal care workers be aware of it? Sure.
Laura 4:56
There are a lot of definitions of compassion fatigue, everyone kind of as their own definition, but I think of it as kind of a emotional, physical, social spiritual depletion, or exhaustion. And it stems from taking caring for others, whether it's people or animals. And it kind of, it takes away our ability to fully care for ourselves and for others. It's kind of the fatigue of our empathy. So we can still feel compassion, empathy in our work, but it's a lessening of it. And I don't know if you've, if you've ever felt that you too, personally. But for me, it's like I didn't, I've never lost my empathy for my clients, or for my animals, but it's just a complete exhaustion where I know I'm not showing up fully in the way that I need to be
Emily 5:52
interesting. I think I definitely have it and have experienced it. You know, because I've been a rescue for over a decade. And what do you think it really comes from? Like in this in this field, we see a lot of suffering, and there's a lot of outcomes that we don't have control over? Would it be? Would it be that that causes the suffering and the lack of control?
Laura 6:17
I think there are a lot of reasons why we get it, that one of my favorite quotes is a woman who said, I can't remember her name right now, but who said, you know, expecting to not have any effect from suffering and loss is like walking through water and expecting not to get wet? Right, so we're all at risk for it in the helping professions. And it there are a couple of risk factors. So if we, if we start with the basics, that we're all at risk, in this work, of having compassion, fatigue, having secondary trauma, even burnout. Some some specific risk factors might be somebody who has unresolved past trauma, or not having good boundaries, personal boundaries, right, not having or having an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, maybe that's from childhood, feeling that you can rescue everything. And another another risk factor is being very other directed. And it's out of balance with being self directed, or self focused. So there are some risk factors. But I think we're all at risk for it. When we care about the work we do.
Libby 7:37
I think that's really insightful. I saw a reference from the book, The Body Keeps the Score, that people who have some kind of trauma load already are more likely to go into animal care work, whether that is veterinary medicine, or animal training, or animal rescue or something like that. So what I hear you saying is that sometimes animal care workers might already be at higher risk for compassion, fatigue, and then we go into really challenging work where we're seeing a lot of suffering. And that just kind of piles on is that right?
Laura 8:28
Yeah, that's true. And, and I think a lot of times, people who have who have cumulative trauma from people go into animal rescue to work with animals, either over identifying or not wanting to be around people as much. We have seen that a lot. That's certainly not true for everyone. But I think that's, that's pretty common. You know, if you if you have a lot of trauma. Personally, if I had a lot of trauma, I just want to work with animals. So you don't necessarily want to be around. Or it's harder to be around people, especially if it's unresolved, right? You know, if people have done their work and then are starting to heal from the trauma, it's different.
Libby 9:16
So, it sounds like animal rescue workers and veterinarians suffer from compassion, fatigue, maybe at a disproportionate rate. I don't know if there were actual statistics on this. And you can clarify that. But how can we protect ourselves from the effects of compassion fatigue?
Laura 9:40
Yeah, that's a great question. And I do there, there are some studies on a high rate or higher risk of mental health distress and or suicide in veterinarians. And it's, it's alarming and so we have a lot of work to do. And then I you know, I think Animal Rescue workers do suffer from more more mental health, distress, or complications, along with other helping professions. Right, it's harder to tease that out. But we certainly know that when you identify within with the suffering of an animal, those who can't speak for themselves, then there is a higher risk of compassion, fatigue, mental health complications, secondary trauma. So there are a few things that we can do to kind of see the signs, notice the symptoms, and then I can talk about what we can do about it. So I'll start with if it's okay, it's some of the signs and the symptoms that you'll notice. Let's talk about the symptoms when we know we're in, and compassion fatigue, and then we can kind of talk about what early signs might be, but the symptoms are kind of persistent, and then any, anything that has negative side effects in your life. So for example, you might notice your sleep is disturbed, persistently. So if you're somebody who suffers from insomnia anyway, then that may be a harder symptom to see. But if you're all of a sudden waking up at one in the morning, two in the morning, I can't sleep, racing thoughts about the animals, you're in compassion fatigue, or you have it or you're, you're moving toward it. Right, we all suffer from kind of compassion stress in our day to day work. But when it becomes compassion, fatigue, is when again, persistent secondary trauma or a person, you know, you see suffering over and over and over again, then some of the other symptoms might be frequent illness, that might be feeling isolated, or isolating yourself, right? Everybody's asking me for something all the time. So you might take a step back, and notice you're isolating more than usual. So again, these are things that are abnormal, or out of the norm for you. These are good signs, frustration and resentment, higher levels, getting that quicker. using substances more frequently, and you're noticing you're doing it to numb or to self medicate. And that can include food, shopping, zoning out on social media, anything that kind of, again, not there. It's not we're not talking about good or bad. But is it having a negative effect on your life? reduced ability to feel empathy. And then sometimes we can see signs of trauma, which is hyper vigilance, or flashbacks, you know, so, secondary trauma, and compassion, fatigue kind of go hand in hand, some people think they're the same thing. I kind of separate them out a little bit, but they're pretty hand in hand. When we are observing secondary trauma, it can become second, compassion fatigue.
Libby 13:08
Okay. Did we define secondary trauma yet?
Laura 13:14
No, I don't think we did. And I can, I'll talk a little bit about that, then secondary trauma is just the witnessing of someone else's trauma. But sometimes in our brain, our brain can't differentiate between primary trauma and secondary trauma. And so we'll talk about that in a minute. It's really important to be able to regulate your nervous system. Because again, sometimes our brain that part of our brain thinks we're also in trauma, even though we're just observing it, if we haven't kind of built resilience around it, because we all see secondary trauma in the work that we do, whether it's with people or with him. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's it's it's important that we I am so grateful that you're having me talk about this because it is so important in the in the mental health field, as therapists, we talk about this all day long, and we're very aware of it. In other professions. I don't, I think people are talking about it more. But it's very real. And it and it can lead to some severe complications.
Libby 14:22
So what are some of those early signs? Where we can see like, oh, no, okay, I need to take a step back. I need to do some self care or yeah, whatever preventative strategies you might be able to share with us.
Laura 14:36
Well, I think if we look at if we, if we think about the symptoms I just listed, it's kind of the, the early signs or the early signs, right? It's just starting, but it starts with a self awareness. So I'm having a self awareness of one, what happens in your body. So if we can all recognize okay, I know when I know what happens in my body when I feel joy. I know what happens when I'm sad. Because our body gives us the cues early. And just like that book you were referencing, the Body Keeps the Score. Our body holds our trauma and holds our stress. And it also gives us cues. So an early, if we have early warning, it's knowing, okay, well, I'm not sleeping, or my heart rate is really, up and fat, my heart's beating fast every time I go to work, what's going on? So knowing what your baseline is, here's, I know what happens when I feel calm, and I feel joyful. And I'm going to work and I'm working with the animals versus my palms are sweating, I feel sick to my stomach, I'm starting to get sick more often. Your body's telling you, there's something wrong.
Libby 15:56
We often talk about in dog training a dog's threshold, like their emotional threshold, like a bucket that's about to overflow, you know, and like one event fills the bucket up one inch. But once you keep adding on stressful events for the dog, the bucket can overflow. And that's when they're over their emotional threshold. And they are struggling to learn. They're struggling to pay attention struggling to do easy tasks. And I'm kind of relating that back to what you're saying right now. It's kind of a cumulative, maybe we're always close to being at our emotional threshold.
Laura 16:41
Yes, yes. And if we think that's a great as a great visual of, we're on a podcast, you can see the visual that we're talking about, of the bucket overflowing of the threshold. Because what happens with humans is, we have a nervous part of our nervous system is called the autonomic nervous system. And it regulates the automatic body functions, breathing, heart rate, digestion, things we don't have to think about. And to kind of simplify this explanation, I can kind of geek out on this as a trauma therapist, but basically, where we want to be is what we call the parasympathetic nervous system. And that's that calm place. So with, with animals, I don't know if animals have this similar nervous system, I apologize for not knowing this. They do. Okay, yeah. So, but and with us, it's the parasympathetic is that calm resting place, we're feeling curious, we know our emotions, we're thinking clearly, when we have an activation or an activating event, we get kicked into fight or flight. Everybody has heard about fight or flight. And what happens is, if we don't give ourselves the time, to get back to baseline, or to allow parasympathetic nervous system to kick in, then we stay in fight or flight for too long, we might dip back down a little bit. But if we stay in there too long, in sympathetic nervous system, then that's where we start seeing compassion, fatigue symptoms, chronic illness, that's where we start regularly, we start just feeling the effects of trauma. So what what's when you think about the bucket overflowing, that's what's happening, right, we're in fight or flight for too long, and we're not made to be up there. So part of the and we'll talk about this in a minute, but part of the strategy is learning how to regulate your nervous system. Because also, when we're in sympathetic nervous system, or in fight or flight, our logic brain goes offline. Our logic brain is just like I'm out of here. I'll see ya. So we're not we can't think clearly. And think about theffects of that also.
Emily 18:58
it's so interesting, because it really is so similar to dogs. And on this podcast, and in our dog training world, we always talk about taking them out on decompression walks and letting them smell. So we're so focused on how can we get their brain into that parasympathetic, like decompressing and, you know, really filling their emotional cup, but we don't really think about it so much for us. So I really am enjoying this conversation and having all these thoughts I'm not saying a lot because I'm having all these thoughts like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, like this has taken a toll and how can we the humans, protect ourselves so that we can keep doing the work that we're doing?
Laura 19:44
Right, and that's such a good point because we are so focused on other right and so if you're focused on well, how do we take care of the animals and then we forget to take care of ourselves. And the the, the idea of the oxygen mask The plane, right is is the perfect example for this or the analogy for this is that we have to put on the oxygen mask first, and then help others and we forget to put that on. Yeah. And that's when that compassion fatigue sets in.
Emily 20:16
And I have a question which maybe is out of line of questioning. But one problem you mentioned was boundaries. And as an animal rescuer, like I get emails, phone calls, you know, all day long, people assume because you're a rescuer that you can help and it's so hard. So, you know, like to tell someone I'm sorry, I can't help you with your dog like, because we don't have you know, we don't have, we can't help like, we probably get 15 requests a day. There's no way that we could do it. So how, how our boundaries fit in there. And without feeling bad every time I like, I'm a yes person. So it really hurts me. And I feel like a piece of myself every time I just have to be like, Sorry, can't help like that. That's a hard place to be.
Laura 21:04
It sure is. Emily, I can't imagine how difficult that is. I know, it's, it's probably easier for me to say no to people, it's hard. But to say no, for an animal. I think that that's probably one of the reasons that you guys are at higher risk that we were talking about before is right being having to say I can't help. And so I don't know that I have an easy answer. I think one, you setting those boundaries are essential and crucial for you. On a personal level up, not to mention just the capacity level, right? You can't help everybody. But also I think we all have to allow for the hard emotions, to be able to express them in a way that gets them out. But also just there's an acceptance that comes with your in this work. And you are going to feel terrible when you have to say no. And not being afraid of it and not shying away from it. That's what we do. We know. It's part of addiction, right? It's part of, I don't want to feel this. And it's not easy. But fear. But owning, acknowledging, naming your emotions, and then being able to sit in them is at the crux crux of mental wellness. That makes sense. So does that make sense? So setting boundaries is so important, but it's not easy? Essentially, and maybe recognizing, okay, I know, I'm going to have to turn off my email at 10 o'clock at night. But you have to, and then knowing that maybe maybe delegating the next day? Or if you say no, is there someone else who's going to say yes, and I know that in Animal Rescue over the pandemic. It's been challenging, either either you guys are overflowing, or I heard people are bringing their animals back. And. And so yes, setting boundaries is crucial. Having people to having your people that you can talk to about this. But being able to express these hard emotions, in a healthy way, is also part of good self care. So if that is talking, go into therapy, creative outlet, meditation, mindfulness, prayer, whatever that looks like for you. But knowing okay, this is going this is hard. And how am I expressing this in a healthy way?
Libby 23:45
So let's talk a little bit about some of this self care that we can do. You mentioned nervous system regulation. How? How does that work? Not saying that? I don't know. No, no. I don't know.
Laura 24:05
So there's a couple, there's a couple of different Well, there, there are quite a few ways but the first way we can regulate nervous system is immediate. So let's say you pick up an animal who has been abused or hurt in some way, and you're trying to get that dog to the vet or safe. And I'm making this up. But I'm assuming that there's something similar like that. And you you're in sympathetic nervous system, right? You're in fight or flight. It's, it's an important it's, it's it's helpful at that moment, right, you're getting an animal the safety or and then the animals at the vet and you're still you still have a lot of adrenaline, cortisol coursing through your body. So the self awareness that I was talking about earlier comes that you recognize Okay, I need to stop and so There's an acronym for stop, which is stop, take a breath, observe and then proceed. And so what that what happens is, I think let's say you're walking out of the vet, and the dog is safe, and you're safe. But you still have the adrenaline and the cortisol racing through your body. That's the time to stop. And so instead of being on to the next thing, and the next thing, so again, taking a breath, there's different breathing, there are different breathing strategies, box breath, which is breathing in for, for holding for, for, exhaling for, for, and holding for, for, you know, so there are different breathing strategies, but recognizing that breath is getting you back in your body. It's getting you back in the moment. If breathing is hard, because you're really wrapped up, then what doing what we call observing, orienting yourself to your surroundings. So using your five senses, observing what what do I see naming what you see out loud? What do I hear? What do I smell? What's the temperature, like, anything that orient you back to the moment allows your logic brain or your prefrontal cortex to come back on, and then you're back in that calm place or your your baseline. So also movement helps with that. Right? Again, dogs or animals shake their trauma out, right? You guys know this. But as humans, we just stuffed it and let it fester. So we also need to get rid of the cortisol and the adrenaline. So maybe you stop, take a breath, orient yourself, and then move your body a little bit. Shake it out, dance, walk, have some water, and then go about your day. So that's kind of an immediate way to regulate your nervous system.
Libby 27:07
So what uh, what about someone who realizes that they have this cumulative stress load? How do we begin to discharge that? When we haven't been doing it in the moment for however many years?
Laura 27:23
Yeah, yeah. And so that's where good self care comes in. That is one proactive, but also replenishing. So if you're someone who's been in the animal welfare field for many, many years, and you recognize I am and compassion fatigue, I have burnout. I'm in trouble. It's, it's never too late to start. So going back to the basics is important. How are you eating? How are you sleeping? How are you moving your body each day? Are you drinking enough water, those are really good basics, it's a good place to start. Because I know for me, when I have felt compassion, fatigue or been in burnout, I'm eating terribly. I'm not moving the way I should be. You know, I'm definitely not sleeping well. So that's the base, starting with the basics is a great place to start no matter where you are. And then taking a look at things like a mindfulness practice, whether that's meditation, or prayer, or something every day so that every day you're teaching your nervous system or reminding your nervous system how to regulate. And it has to be a daily chore. Hopefully, it's a daily practice and a daily reminder, setting boundaries, like we talked about earlier, trying to focus on what's in your control. So many times I have to do this for myself, I make a chart for myself, when I'm spinning in my head. On the left hand side is all the things that are in my control. And on the right is usually the things that are out of my control. And if I am stressed, I'm usually focusing on what's out of my control. That's every time that's so helpful. Wow, isn't that amazing? So even if you can make that chart for yourself and write, write down everything that's stressing you out and then put it in the chart on either side. I guarantee you a lot of your time is spent on things that are out of your control. So it's a mindset shift.
Libby 29:35
This is really blowing my mind right now. And it's bringing up a question that really came to me this morning while I was walking Daisy. I wonder often if social media makes things worse for us in the pet care industry because You know, you log onto Facebook and you see pleas from all over the world of dogs who need rescue. And 90% of the time, there's nothing we can do about it. Or as dog trainers, Emily, and I know, like, we log into social media and we see a trainer using abusive methods. And it's, it's it hurts to see all of these dogs that we can't help. But we never would have encountered that level of a stressor if we hadn't seen it on social media. So do you think that that contributes to the problem?
Laura 30:51
Absolutely. I think we're saturated. And again, how do we are we're emotionally saturated as carrying humans? And then on that, on top of that, you know, what's going on, in a way that the rest of us don't? Right? So for me, when I log on to social media, and I see all the pleas from around the world, I feel paralyzed. Can I get this people? Can I give them money? Okay, well, I live in Lafayette summits in Boulder, you know, and trying to figure out who I can help. Or sometimes I just shut down. That's so for you guys who actually have no more of an awareness of what's happening. I think it's worse. Absolutely. So coming back to that. Okay, what is in my control? And how do I say no, that's the boundary piece. That's so hard. So to answer your question, I think absolutely. I mean, social media is a blessing and a curse. In this case, I think it's it makes your jobs harder.
Emily 32:02
So I'm going back to the fact that you were hired by Denver dumb friends league to work with the workers, you know, the volunteers and the staff. Would you recommend it sounds like you would like even small rescues like us, and you know, shelters, if they can incorporate some sort of like meetings or discussions about compassion, fatigue, and sharing of emotions and trying to help people to remember to identify, because that's my problem is like, once I'm in it, I can't even stop and be like, stop or, you know, I'll just be like, go through the day and fight or flight and then come home and like, have a pint of ice cream?
Laura 32:43
Well, that's exactly right. And that's how you're regulating then your nervous system is by eating the pint of ice cream again, no judgment, right. But is it the healthiest habit? Over time? Right. Same with the alcohol, they're saying that? So what I reckon absolutely, I think even just if small rescues, any organization can have a work workshops, that's what I was doing at the league was, I was giving workshops for different departments on this topic. And we would have conversations, and it needs to be ongoing. So for you, Emily, having a buddy system, even with someone who is going to check you, and who's aware of your signs, and you're aware of their signs. Because we when we're in it again, if our if our, if our frontal lobe is offline, or like the logic part of our brain, then sometimes it is hard to recognize what's happening for us. So I would, I would hope, you know, hope that other rescues, maybe you have somebody you check in with during the day, you know, or you have somebody you know, like me, a mental health consultant who can come in and do a workshop every once in a while, or do an email reminder or something, because again, we get Jaime, it's why therapists have therapists, because we have blind spots. We all do.
Emily 34:09
Yeah, it's such a good conversation, because so many times when I meet new people, and I tell them, I'm a dog trainer, and I'm in rescue, they're like, Oh, my God, that's so great. Like, oh, it's, you know, it's actually like, emergency work most of the time. Yeah, you know. And so I think it's so great to talk about the mental health factors and how we can support each other, even just you know, once a week having a buddy check in and be like, how are we all doing? I think that's so important for us to at least keep doing it. I mean, Libby's heard a million times me being like, I don't know how long I can do this, but we keep going. So just if I could, like release the pressure valve, and have some mindfulness,
Laura 34:51
yes. And so yeah, it's kind of like your own self care, and then building community. So like you said, check in once a week or Three times a week or you have a text chain or something, one thing we have to be careful about is making sure that we're doing what's called low impact debrief. So, what that means is sometimes when we all get together for like, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened, and then we have more trauma input, right? So one way to do that if you let's say, You, Libby and Emily and whoever else is involved in your rescue are getting together is that you're asking permission to debrief. I had a really hard, traumatic experience happen. Are you guys okay? If I share this with you? And then it prepares people and then if somebody's like, I can't I'm, I'm out. Okay. Let's check in with you. What do you need? And then if you Emily need to debrief maybe Libby says, Okay, later I can handle it because I feel okay. But we really have to watch our trauma input. Meaning are we watching like true crime on, you know, at night, and then listening to you know, we're, which we all do. I mean, I watch these cop shows sometimes. And I'm like, What am I doing? Then? I wonder why I can't sleep. But it's we have trauma input all the time. So I think another self care strategies, just being aware of where's our trauma coming, watching the news? 24/7. Right, there's a lot happening in the world outside of our own sadness. And it's a lot coming at us not to mention in two years into a pandemic.
Emily 36:39
Okay, I just want to repeat that, because I just that was one of the most profound things I've ever heard is we really want to watch our trauma and put that is so interesting. And so and also that if I have trauma, not to just call Libby and do a trauma dump, because then she's getting secondary trauma, right from my trauma.
Laura 37:00
Right. And so asking her permission if Libby said, it flippy feels like she's in what we call the window of tolerance. But I was talking about parasympathetic nervous system. If Libby's like, yeah, good. laid on me. I'm here to help. Or Libby has a chance to be like, I'm out. I'm tapped out. Right?
Libby 37:19
Yeah. I'm, I'm listening to all of this. And I'm recognizing Emily and I are really guilty of doing this to one another. We're bad about really bad about it. Like, yeah, so it sounds like our nervous system can't tell the difference between my own bad day and Emily's bad day. Or like you were saying, like, you know, watching, binge watching SVU on Hulu like mine is, is that kind of what you're saying? Like my nervous system is taking on all of that stress?
Laura 37:51
It sure is. And sometimes it can tell. Sometimes it can tell the difference. But you but it's again, going back to noticing your body cues. So if you're watching SVU, and you're starting to feel sweaty, right, or that lump in your throat, then you're being activated. And you're having a trauma response, most likely. So it's being but sometimes you can watch us view and you can you definitely can separate, right again, if you're feeling good. And Emily calls you Libby and tells you about our her trauma today. It is it can be secondary trauma, but it may not be secondary trauma, stress. But you'll know it if you're aware of how it affects you.
Libby 38:36
So it goes back to being able to observe what's happening
Laura 38:40
all the time. Exactly. Noticing, because your body's giving you cues all the time, you know, and it's hard to remember, I don't remember it until the end of the day after you know, six trauma clients and I'm like, why am I so wired? Why do I feel like crying? Oh, because I didn't take a break. And I you know, my nervous system is flooded. So then I have to ask myself, What do I need? That's healthy to get back in that in that calm state?
Libby 39:11
Earlier you mentioned burnout. Yeah. What is the relationship between compassion fatigue and burnout? And are they the same thing?
Laura 39:24
The easy answer is no, they're not the same thing. So but burnout can happen in any job at any time. So it's not necessarily related to trauma or compassion, compassionate work, right? You can work I don't know at a bank and just have a co worker conflict and get burned out. But But burnout happens over time. Kind of like compassion, fatigue, burnout can be like, I hate my boss. I've been working 14 hours a day. All the things and then all of a sudden you recognize you're exhausted is this it can be some are symptoms. But it doesn't always it's not always related to compassion, compassion, fatigue is in the helping profession. And again, it diminishes our ability to be fully compassionate and empathetic for ourselves and for others. So you can experience burnout and compassion when you have compassion fatigue, certainly.
Libby 40:23
Okay, that makes sense. So does that make sense? Yeah, it's specifically related to helping, caring, kind of work,
Laura 40:32
right? Compassionate work, we get fatigued in our ability to have empathy or compassion, whereas burnout can be
Libby 40:41
generalized. Got it.
Emily 40:44
So when you say fatigued, in our ability to have compassion or empathy, like, what does that really mean? Because I feel like I've never gotten to the point where I don't have empathy or compassion. I kind of wish I did get to that point. So what is that more secondary trauma where you're just feeling like you're constantly in compassion overload, but you still have compassion and empathy?
Laura 41:11
No, I think it's a great question. I think we can still have compassion, empathy, even when we have compassion, fatigue, but we but it's, we have a diminished ability. Because we're depleted. We're exhausted. And so right. So again, if as a therapist, if I am in compassion, fatigue, if I have it, or I'm nearing burnout, I don't feel like maybe I'm as present as I want to be doesn't mean I've lost my empathy or my ability to care for them. But or I've lost my ability to care for myself. That's typically what happens is with compassion, fatigue, we're giving all our compassion and empathy to others. And we've lost our ability to have empathy for ourselves. That really, no, it's not absence of it's almost diminishment of. I hope that's clear.
Emily 42:10
Oh, yeah. That was Yeah.
Libby 42:13
I mean, it's just so common in dog rescue, to put everyone else's needs first, and then wonder why we're sick all the time, or grumpy all the time, or, you know, angry because we didn't make time for our own dog or something like that. It's just so easy to lose that compassion for ourselves.
Laura 42:38
It really is inside. So I know we're going to run out of time. But I would say, you know, one of the I think one of the greatest prevention against this is the recognition that this is what's happening. So even starting the conversation, so Emily, and Libby and you guys having a conversation with your team, and being able to acknowledge and name it, here's what's happening for me. And then figuring out, okay, what do I need to regulate my nervous system every day? It's a great starting point. And then you build those self care things, and then you're automatically starting to remember yourself, rather than always doing for others, because we need you, both of you in this work, and if you burn out, or you get sick, then you can't help anyone. Right? That's the oxygen mask. And it's your work is so vital. You know, so I think yeah, thank you. I think for anyone who's listening, starting the conversation is crucial.
Libby 43:47
So Laura, before we let you go, is there anything else about compassion fatigue, that we didn't cover that you think is really important for our listeners to know?
Laura 43:56
Oh, there's, there's, there's so much more. But I think, just what we talked about, start the conversation, recognize what works for you for self care, because it looks different for everyone else, but being able to name and acknowledge and sit in these hard emotions is part of it also. And then I think great self compassion. You're not going to get it right. All the time. But having that compassion for yourself, even you know, putting your hands on your heart when your breathing is giving yourself it's helping to regulate your nervous system, but it's also giving yourself this compassion that this is really hard work. I do this all the time. My clients are like, Why Why is she doing this again? But it just feels good, but it's also just okay, I'm regulating and I'm showing myself some compassion that this isn't easy.
Emily 44:54
Yeah. You know, yeah. Oh my gosh, well, this was such important conversation. I'm so glad that you could join us. And I'm sure all our listeners who work with animals and foster and volunteer in shelters will really appreciate it. Because I do think it's, it's so important for us to take care of ourselves.
Laura 45:16
It really is. And there are a lot of great resources online of people who work in the in the animal rescue world who have a ton of rescue resources about compassion fatigue, and I'm happy to send a list to you guys. Yes, if that would be helpful.
Libby 45:34
Yeah, we put all of those in the show notes. And Laura, if any of our listeners are hearing you speak about your work with dumb friends League and would like you to do a workshop for their organization. Are you available for that kind of thing?
Laura 45:46
Absolutely. It's, it's one of my loves. You can email me at [email protected]. Or my website is my therapy website. It doesn't have my mental health. Other work on there, but it's LauraHendersoncounseling.com.
Libby 46:07
Awesome. I'll put those links in the show notes.
Laura 46:10
Thank you. Yeah, I love this. I love this work. I and I would be I would love to do workshops or send resources or just jump on the phone with somebody who has questions.
Libby 46:21
Amazing.
Laura 46:22
Absolutely
Emily 46:23
Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Libby 46:26
Well, Laura, thank you so much for taking the time today. This was a really important conversation and I'm I'm really glad that we're able to share it with our listeners.
Laura 46:36
Thank you so much for having me.
Libby 46:42
Thanks for tuning in. If you liked this episode, don't forget to rate and review. It helps other folks like you find the show. Thanks to Mike pesci for the original music and James II have be heard for production. For show notes and transcripts visit pod to the rescue.com. Let us know what you think about this episode on social media. We're at pod to the rescue on Facebook and Instagram and we love connecting with listeners. We'll catch you next time on pod to the rescue. Oh, and tell your dog we said hi
Transcribed by https://otter.ai